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3D Patterns from Radiance 3D Tue, 23 November 2010 11:23 Go to next message
actarusfleed is currently offline actarusfleed
Messages: 44
Registered: February 2010
Location: Milan (Italy)
Junior Member
Hi there,
Radiance 3D is here ... ahd It's good but ... It'll be possible to use it to calibrate 3D displays?

My big question is: I'll be able to GENERATE 3D patterns internally?

Thank you so much,
actarus.
Re: 3D Patterns from Radiance 3D Tue, 23 November 2010 12:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
alex_t is currently offline alex_t
Messages: 429
Registered: August 2009
Location: Marne la vallee-France
Lumagen Expert
Good question.

And another: what kind of specific patterns do you need to calibrate a 3D display ?
Re: 3D Patterns from Radiance 3D Tue, 23 November 2010 15:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
actarusfleed is currently offline actarusfleed
Messages: 44
Registered: February 2010
Location: Milan (Italy)
Junior Member
Essentially (I think) the same that Radiance normally produces ... but It have to output a 3D compliant signal.
If the display receives a 3D signal enter in the 3D working mode and the glasses starts to work.

The glasses must to be enabled during the calibration because del meter must to be putted behind the glasses.

So: Radiance can produce 3D patters and obviously a 3D complient signal?

actarus
Re: 3D Patterns from Radiance 3D Wed, 24 November 2010 17:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pharkin is currently offline pharkin
Messages: 1519
Registered: November 2004
Location: USA
Lumagen Expert
Lumagen Tech
Our current internal patterns don't look 3D but work fine in 3D mode. Do you see some need for a test pattern that looks 3D?
Re: 3D Patterns from Radiance 3D Wed, 24 November 2010 23:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
actarusfleed is currently offline actarusfleed
Messages: 44
Registered: February 2010
Location: Milan (Italy)
Junior Member
pharkin wrote on Wed, 24 November 2010 17:15

Our current internal patterns don't look 3D but work fine in 3D mode. Do you see some need for a test pattern that looks 3D?


Yes Parkin, I'm with you but ...
I think that to do a serious calibration we have to put the meter behind the glasses.
Every glasses are different.

We need to recreate the perfect working situation that we have when we watch 3D films.

-Glasses actived;
-engine that refresh @120Hz or 240Hz;
-3D mode turned ON over display.

To match those 3 conditions the display must receive a 3D signal.

In this moment when radiance reproduces the internal test patterns only output normal 1080p@24hz.

Do you really think that a calibration can be done in this condition?

thank you,
actarus

Re: 3D Patterns from Radiance 3D Thu, 25 November 2010 00:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pharkin is currently offline pharkin
Messages: 1519
Registered: November 2004
Location: USA
Lumagen Expert
Lumagen Tech
The patterns work in 3D mode so you can calibrate behind glasses. We just don't have a pattern that looks 3 dimensional--the patterns are 2D even if wearing glasses.
Re: 3D Patterns from Radiance 3D Thu, 25 November 2010 00:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
actarusfleed is currently offline actarusfleed
Messages: 44
Registered: February 2010
Location: Milan (Italy)
Junior Member
No Parkin,
If radiance output normal 1080p@24hz pattern signal my display (in my case new D-ILA projectors) works ONLY in normal mode and the glasses are OFF.

If the radiance become able to output normal 2D patterns PACKED in a 3D signal my pj will starts to work in 3D mode and the glasses will turned ON.

That's why I think that we need a complient 3D signal outptted from radiance.
The patterns remains in 2D but the signal must be 3D ... my pj call it "24FP" (frame packing).

actarus
Re: 3D Patterns from Radiance 3D Thu, 25 November 2010 05:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pharkin is currently offline pharkin
Messages: 1519
Registered: November 2004
Location: USA
Lumagen Expert
Lumagen Tech
Acturus, our patterns work in standard 3D modes. I've already tried them. The only trick right now is that you need to input a 3D source to get the Radiance to switch into a 3D mode and then you can go into the menu and select a test pattern. It will appear in 1080p frame packed 3D if that's the mode you were in. We do need to make a change so you can manually go into a 3D mode for easier calibration.
Re: 3D Patterns from Radiance 3D Thu, 25 November 2010 16:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
actarusfleed is currently offline actarusfleed
Messages: 44
Registered: February 2010
Location: Milan (Italy)
Junior Member
pharkin wrote on Thu, 25 November 2010 05:39

We do need to make a change so you can manually go into a 3D mode for easier calibration.


Perfect Pharkin!
that's what I'm lookin' for. Smile Smile

actarus
Re: 3D Patterns from Radiance 3D Fri, 29 April 2011 23:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nudge is currently offline Nudge
Messages: 274
Registered: December 2009
Location: Germany
Lumagen Expert
pharkin wrote on Thu, 25 November 2010 06:39
We do need to make a change so you can manually go into a 3D mode for easier calibration.


Have you implemented that feature in the meanwhile ? I want to use the AVSHD for calibrating, but I don't know, how to use the AVSHD in the 3D-mode. So it would be nice to have a feature in the Radiance to FORCE a 3D-mode when using the AVSHD.


Source: BDT-110, HD-XE1, VT-1S, UFS-924
Calibration: LightSpace CMS, CalMAN 5 Pro, Chroma Pure, Radiance Pro 4446, Chroma 5, C6, EODIS3, i1 pro 2, Klein K10-A
Target: JVC-X7000, TX-P65VTW60
Sound: Yamaha RX-V2067,Theater LT 3
Re: 3D Patterns from Radiance 3D Sat, 30 April 2011 00:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jim_peterson
Messages: 1378
Registered: November 2004
Location: Beaverton Oregon, USA
Lumagen Expert
Lumagen Guru
Nudge wrote on Fri, 29 April 2011 15:33
pharkin wrote on Thu, 25 November 2010 06:39
We do need to make a change so you can manually go into a 3D mode for easier calibration.


Have you implemented that feature in the meanwhile ? I want to use the AVSHD for calibrating, but I don't know, how to use the AVSHD in the 3D-mode. So it would be nice to have a feature in the Radiance to FORCE a 3D-mode when using the AVSHD.



Currently you need the input to be 3D, and then the Radiance Pattern will also be in "3D mode" and so can be used for calibrating 3D. We do not have a schedule for adding a command to output 3D patterns when the input is not 3D at this time.


Jim Peterson
Lumagen
Re: 3D Patterns from Radiance 3D Sat, 30 April 2011 00:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nudge is currently offline Nudge
Messages: 274
Registered: December 2009
Location: Germany
Lumagen Expert
jim_peterson wrote on Sat, 30 April 2011 01:53

Currently you need the input to be 3D, and then the Radiance Pattern will also be in "3D mode" and so can be used for calibrating 3D. We do not have a schedule for adding a command to output 3D patterns when the input is not 3D at this time.


Yep, I know about the fact and, at the moment, I use the test patterns of the Radiance after playing a 3D-BluRay. But I think it's very useful to have a FORCE command. Then I can also use other calibration DVDs for brightness / contrast. Sorry, but I think you know that the test patterns in the Radiance are not the best for adjusting the contrast / brightness Wink The "blinking patterns" of the AVSHD are much more better.


Source: BDT-110, HD-XE1, VT-1S, UFS-924
Calibration: LightSpace CMS, CalMAN 5 Pro, Chroma Pure, Radiance Pro 4446, Chroma 5, C6, EODIS3, i1 pro 2, Klein K10-A
Target: JVC-X7000, TX-P65VTW60
Sound: Yamaha RX-V2067,Theater LT 3

[Updated on: Sat, 30 April 2011 01:01]

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Re: 3D Patterns from Radiance 3D Sat, 30 April 2011 02:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jim_peterson
Messages: 1378
Registered: November 2004
Location: Beaverton Oregon, USA
Lumagen Expert
Lumagen Guru
Nudge wrote on Fri, 29 April 2011 16:59
... Sorry, but I think you know that the test patterns in the Radiance are not the best for adjusting the contrast / brightness Wink The "blinking patterns" of the AVSHD are much more better.


I disagree.

Our Contrast 2 pattern is the best pattern I have used for black level. It has -4% to +4% in 1% steps in the middle of the screen and allows for setting black level very accurately.

Not sure on the pattern you mention, but generally the blink patterns are at black -4 and perhaps +4 IRE. Avia is this way. To accurately set black you should have 1% steps steps like our contrast 2 pattern.

I find it very straight forward to use our Contrast 2 pattern to set black level very accurately and I dislike blinking patterns.

---

Our Contrast 1 pattern works well for setting white level.


Jim Peterson
Lumagen
Re: 3D Patterns from Radiance 3D Sat, 30 April 2011 02:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nudge is currently offline Nudge
Messages: 274
Registered: December 2009
Location: Germany
Lumagen Expert
I am thinking of the blinking bars (1% step) of the AVSHD. IMHO that are the best test patterns I have ever seen to adjust the brightness / contrast: you can also see discoloration. That was not possible with the test pattern in the Radiance.

The problem is not the BRIGHTNESS, that's easy to detect. The CONTRAST is the problem.

It's very easy to set the black level of a projector: display a 0 IRE field pattern and increase / decrease the brightness controler as far as it will not change.


Source: BDT-110, HD-XE1, VT-1S, UFS-924
Calibration: LightSpace CMS, CalMAN 5 Pro, Chroma Pure, Radiance Pro 4446, Chroma 5, C6, EODIS3, i1 pro 2, Klein K10-A
Target: JVC-X7000, TX-P65VTW60
Sound: Yamaha RX-V2067,Theater LT 3

[Updated on: Sat, 30 April 2011 02:28]

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Re: 3D Patterns from Radiance 3D Sat, 30 April 2011 05:33 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
jim_peterson
Messages: 1378
Registered: November 2004
Location: Beaverton Oregon, USA
Lumagen Expert
Lumagen Guru
Nudge wrote on Fri, 29 April 2011 18:20
I am thinking of the blinking bars (1% step) of the AVSHD. IMHO that are the best test patterns I have ever seen to adjust the brightness / contrast: you can also see discoloration. That was not possible with the test pattern in the Radiance.

The problem is not the BRIGHTNESS, that's easy to detect. The CONTRAST is the problem.

It's very easy to set the black level of a projector: display a 0 IRE field pattern and increase / decrease the brightness controler as far as it will not change.


Happy to continue to disagree with you. The Lumagen patterns are excellent for setting both black and white (white you are calling contrast) levels.

Contrast is easy to set with the Radiance patterns. I have done it many times.


Jim Peterson
Lumagen
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